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Anti-fluoride nutballs 
24th-Apr-2013 07:49 pm
Here in Portland, the issue of putting fluoride in water has come up. Which came as a shock to me; I've lived in so many cities, and they all did fluoride in the water, that I naturally assumed that every city in the Western world was already doing it. After all, it's proven to be a safe and cheap means of preventing tooth decay, and the only arguments against it the anti-fluoride idiots can give is either "OMG it's a mind control substance!" or some unproven BS about it being rat poison, and of course they never cite any reputable sources for this crap they spew.

So it pisses me off that at least a third of the population of Portland seems to have these damned "Vote NO on fluoridation chemicals" signs. I've been trying to find the "vote YES" version. I may be forced to make my own sign, that says "Vote YES on putting floride in water because only morons are opposed to it."

About the only good thing about these stupid signs is that a good chunk of the "morons with not enough brains to fill an egg cup" population of Portland are now clearly labeled.
10th-May-2013 07:39 am (UTC)
Ah yes, fluoride, the stuff that they tell you not to let your kids use in toothpaste, because they might swallow it. And if they do eat toothpaste, they tell you to call poison control. I can't imagine why people might thing it's not good for you.

Oh right, it's because there is such a thing as fluoride poisoning. http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199401133300203
10th-May-2013 08:24 am (UTC)
I think it's funny how people are going crazy about the yard signs
10th-May-2013 08:25 am (UTC)
D'oh comment placement fail
10th-May-2013 12:09 pm (UTC)
"Ah yes, fluoride, the stuff that they tell you not to let your kids use in toothpaste, because they might swallow it."
Hang on, that's not quite accurate. Children aren't supposed to swallow fluoridated toothpaste, but almost all children's toothpaste does contain fluoride, and non-fluoridated toothpaste is unusual, so it's not exactly "the stuff they tell you not to let your kids use". The American Dental Association only warn against fluoridated toothpaste under age 2, and that's because of water fluoridation. Countries without water fluoridation don't stop even under-twos using fluoride toothpaste (the British Dental Association says "All children up to three years old should use a toothpaste with a fluoride level of at least 1000ppm (parts per million). After three years old they should use a toothpaste that contains 1350ppm to 1500ppm.").

I think it's probably also unfair to equate the harms of swallowing toothpaste (fluoride 1000-1500ppm, up to 5000ppm) with fluoridated drinking water (fluoride 0.7-1ppm).
11th-May-2013 03:30 pm (UTC)
There's such a thing as water poisoning, too.
10th-May-2013 07:46 am (UTC)
My aunt drives across town to get nasty fluoridated water from my grandpas... she's also a complete nutcase.
10th-May-2013 07:53 am (UTC)
Oh dear, how wrong can you be. You naturally assumed that every city in the Western world was putting fluoride in water because you've lived in so many cities. Were all of those in the US, perhaps?

Clearly it would surprise you to learn that the vast majority of European countries don't add fluoride to water, then. Only 10% of the population in the UK have added-fluoride water, for example and that percentage is high compared to many other European countries.

This is an example of how carrying out, oh, I don't know, maybe 30 seconds worth of research would have saved you from looking rather, well, stupid...
10th-May-2013 08:12 am (UTC)
Hasn't that already been addressed when he/she said 'I naturally assumed...' Which to me reads as them having come to realise this isn't the case.
10th-May-2013 08:14 am (UTC)
LOLOL Oh, this post so deliciously ironic.
10th-May-2013 12:12 pm (UTC)
10th-May-2013 10:53 am (UTC)
Even if fluoride did absolutely nothing but good, this still isn't really "stupid" to me. People naturally want choice in what they consume, and by requiring an additive to the water supply, something everyone draws from, people are being deprived of that choice unless they live off-grid, never go to restaurants, never land in the hospital, etc. My city adds fluoride and I'm good to sit tight, but if the issue every came up I'd vote against it too, because I want to be able to make that choice about what goes into my body instead of having it mandated.
10th-May-2013 02:54 pm (UTC)
I'd like a choice on what goes into my body, too. Can we start with voting on the use of all those pesticides, industrial chemicals, and antibiotics that get into the water supply? And then we'll outlaw fossil fuel emissions, so children stop having to breathe chemicals that cause asthma and cancer.

In terms of public health and epidemiology, fluoride in the water supply and folic acid in grain are net goods. Adding carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and soot to the air we all have to breathe—even if we do live off-grid—is a net harm.

Getting upset about fluoridation has a straining at gnats and swallowing camels aspect, at best. (At best because I suspect some of those no votes are coming from people who still think fluoridation is a Soviet plot.)
10th-May-2013 04:16 pm (UTC)
The fact that this post was approved shows that the new moderators don't really know what they're doing. *unwatch*
10th-May-2013 04:29 pm (UTC)
Oh, I don't know! A lot of enjoyable mocking seems to be going on all around.
10th-May-2013 06:25 pm (UTC)
Just because someone doesn't want something added to their water supply (even if it's been shown to be beneficial and/or safe) doesn't make them stupid.
10th-May-2013 09:17 pm (UTC)
Most ground water has naturally occuring fluoride in it. Communities that choose to fluoridate for the proven benefits choose to, in the parlance of the CDC and EPA, OPTIMALLY fluoridate. In some cases, in order to adhere to EPA standards, communities have to reduce the flouride levels in the water.

As for the warning on toothpaste, the fluoride there is intended to provide topical benefits, and so is much more concentrated than it is in the water coming out of your tap. Anything in too great a quantity is dangerous: chlorine (added to your drinking water, by the way) vitamin c, sunlight...
11th-May-2013 08:55 am (UTC)
Vitamin C not so much as it is water soluble and excess is excreted in urine. Fat soluble vitamins, like for instance vitamin A, are dangerous in excess as they are retained in the body's fat reserves.
10th-May-2013 09:30 pm (UTC)
Holy crap. For real? As a little kid, I was always getting numerous cavities until they finally fluoridated the water supply. I haven't had one since.
Sheesh Portland.
18th-May-2013 11:43 pm (UTC)
I am the exact opposite. I lived in a town where there was no fluoride and it was not until moving to a place that was in which I got cavities.
11th-May-2013 11:20 am (UTC)
Ugh, those poor Portland children are gonn have shitty teeth. I grew up on well water, so I can barely stand the drinking water in the city. Consequently my teeth are horrible because I didn't get enough fluoride in childhood. Hope those hippies like paying for expensive dental work, they're gonna need it.
15th-May-2013 10:23 am (UTC)
So do you think all European children have shitty teeth, and need expensive dental work, too?
13th-May-2013 04:32 pm (UTC)
For the record, I took fluoride supplements on the advice of my dentist as a kid for about 5-6 years (until they started putting fluoride in the water). Last I checked, I don't have fluoride poisoning, nor have I ever experienced those symptoms. I can tell you that I've never had a single cavity, and I was never the best flosser (once a day for the three days before I went to the dentist - that was it).

Could be that correlation =/= causation, but I do know there's a reason that dentists used to recommend fluoride supplements and why we had those five minute fluoride treatments at the dentist as a kid (the bubblegum flavoured one was always a little weird...). There also seems to be less incidence of cavities in children who have fluoride treatment as well. I don't think it's as big a deal as everyone says it is.. At least not until the levels of fluoride in the water start rising above a certain level anyway...
8th-Jun-2013 12:58 am (UTC)
When I was a kid, I was particularly disdainful of brushing, and you wouldn't catch me flossing in a million years. I also got fluoride treatments at the dentist every six months, along with my regular cleaning. I never had a cavity. Since moving to the Pacific Northwest, where they do not, as a rule, fluoridate, I've had two cavities, and enamel softening.
17th-May-2013 07:23 pm (UTC) - Sarcasm alert!
The problem is, you know, that the gubmint puts fluoride in the water because fluoride binds to the receptor sites for the gubmint thought-control rays and potentiates them so that the tin foil hats don't work any more...

Wonder how many anti-fluoride activists who declaim that they want only pure things going into their bodies have had their water tested to see if they still have the old lead connectors to the water supply?
28th-May-2013 02:33 pm (UTC)
This. I lub you liddle_oldman. ;)
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